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Proposed Structure and Historical Foundation
12-19-2011, 03:32 AM (This post was last modified: 12-19-2011 03:56 AM by Imperium.)
Post: #1
Proposed Structure and Historical Foundation
First, I think Felipe and Colin have a great idea. Here are my thoughts on how a multi-player nation should be organized:

Amberia has an elective monarch chosen by a council of noblemen as both head of state and head of government. The elective monarch is not absolute and must have the approval of his or her council - similar to the Papal States during the Renaissance - for major decisions. Perhaps it would be easier to characterize it as an implied approval. In other words, the monarch may do what he pleases unless his council votes that they do not approve.

The monarch rules for life or until replaced by the council by something like a vote of no confidence. The monarch has the authority to appoint and dismiss government ministers as he or she sees fit.

One of our administrators will subdivide territories 1091, 1092, and 1093 into as they see fit. Each player authors one region (subdivision) of Amberia as a micro-state and develops nobleman characters from that region. Each selects one of their characters to be represented on the royal council. Involved players will then vote on which noble personality will serve as monarch. One player, one vote. Simple majority of player's votes determines the outcome.

I suggest the depth and creativity of a player's characterization and back story as well as any "in-game" maneuvering be considered when voting for the ruler. The player whose character is elected ruler plays the role of monarch for the duration of his character's rule. This player selects the other characters (created by himself or other players) to serve as ministers. Promises to appoint another player's character to ministerial positions can be used to campaign for the monarchy.

I suggest the foundation of the monarchy go back to a holy war that was fought among the Anarian powers around 6800.

6800 is the approximate date our tech chart shows holy war was conceptually developed. Seems late to me, haven't people been fighting over religion from time immemorial? 5300, about the time Fundamentalism starts, seems to be a better date.

Like any good holy war, religion was a pretense for more worldly ambitions and territories 1091, 1092, and 1903 are sufficiently valuable to justify a war over resources. Different combatants would have had varied religious and secular justifications for involvement.

Due to geo-political reasons, the war ended in a stalemate. Part of the problem is that a war fought on an island required considerable logistical organization for all involved. Resupplying an army was a considerable effort and the war dragged off and on as men and supplies allowed. As the war dragged on, allegiances changed, allies were betrayed and no one was able to achieve decisive victory. As a result, the warring armies founded self sufficient feudal states - much like the Crusader States - and grew less dependent on domestic support. Once the regional states were largely independent of their masters, they signed a power sharing treaty that created the elective monarchy and an neutral capital city.

The balance of power has always been delicate. Any attempt at a power grab has led to open conflict. The last such conflict was the Pan-Anarian War.
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12-19-2011, 08:58 AM
Post: #2
RE: Proposed Structure and Historical Foundation
This thing has become way bigger than when I said "yes" yesterday. But I haven't heard a thing that does not sound thrilling, so... so far so good!

The main reason why I wanted to become active, was to be able to develop more "flavors" of Orkanan. That religion has all the ingredients for a wide range of branches. How about this, if Ambria is like Orkanan's Jerusalem, then Skiöldavik would be something like Orkanan's Rome. Not 100% of course, that wouldn't be fun. But it would explain how Helreich got its Anarian influences and how Orkanan ended up so long north. Are we talking Civ1 or Civ3 here now? I kinda lost track...

6800 as a starting date for these "holy wars" or "crusades" seems fitting, if we look at the rise of the (2nd) Stoldavic Empire. The Empire than also becomes a vehicle for creating influence and fighting power in the holy lands. So that would fit Vittmark's and Helreich's history very well, as well as giving a casus belli for the Pan-Anarian.

All in all, I like this "game within a game" thing, because it will help us developing Anarian history and a background on why it is so dominant in the present era. I also think that we'll be able to contribute whatever we're good at contributing to make this the main showcase of the planet. The individual nations are the domain of individual players, with large differences in style, attitude, etc, while this joint development will become more than the sum of its parts.

VITTMARK:"This mess is a place." | FISKS:"Fisk you!"
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12-20-2011, 03:04 PM
Post: #3
RE: Proposed Structure and Historical Foundation
Been discussing a bit on FB yesterday and here's some more outline.

Amberia will play a strong role in getting large parts of Anaria converted to some form of Orkanan. Its central location with loads of accessible coastline on Stoldavia and the Anarian mainland will make it a perfect religious export hub.

After the demise of the Orkanan Realm, the centre of gravity for Orkanan moved south. Amberia became the place where a more "Anarian" variation of the religion was developed, which was spread throughout the region. This might have started as early as 6000rh.

Then we get a rather powerful and influential nation state covering the entire island (or large parts of it) with strongholds on foreign coasts as well, which could work as focal points for the distribution of Orkanan. And trade...

Then we have about 800 years to let it all get out of hand. For some reason (suggestions welcomed) the several branches of Orkanan would like to get a grip on what now is considered a "holy" land.

The rise of the Greater Stoldavic Empire can be seen as a mean to increase the Stoldavic influence on Amberia, which eventually, somewhere between 6900 and 7200, becomes successfull. The Empire overplays its hand, crumbles under its own weight and internal strife (mainly between the Stellists and Mellanhand) and the whole Holy War thing starts all over again.

Somehow, all the different groups manage to create some common government, a bit like in the UK with its Anglians and Norman, or in Germany with Prussia, Bavaria, Hessen and Baden. This gives us a "federal" structure with a role for nobility...

VITTMARK:"This mess is a place." | FISKS:"Fisk you!"
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12-20-2011, 09:30 PM
Post: #4
RE: Proposed Structure and Historical Foundation
So far I like the concept with Orkanan. I'm curious over the motives of 'holy wars' here and why they happened along with who fought them. Also, why is it a 'holy land'?

"Without the drive, initiative, and inspiration to advance technologically, a society will ultimately fall behind in the world and fail." - Peter Häver

Helreich: - The Heart of Häverist Civilization
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12-22-2011, 08:28 AM
Post: #5
RE: Proposed Structure and Historical Foundation
That's a good question... The only thing I can come up with is, that there was something pre-orkanan there, which made its way up north through what today is Helreich and turned into Orkanan on central Stoldavia. Long shot... I know...

VITTMARK:"This mess is a place." | FISKS:"Fisk you!"
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12-22-2011, 05:48 PM
Post: #6
RE: Proposed Structure and Historical Foundation
Dr.Tesla Wrote:I'm curious over the motives of 'holy wars' here and why they happened along with who fought them.
I can think of a few motives for religious war:
  1. Control of religious artifacts or a holy site: Jerusalem is a holy city to Jews, Christians, and Islam.
  2. To protect a religious population: the Crusaders claimed to protect the Eastern Church and Christian pilgrims.
  3. To destroy blasphemers or heretics: the Spanish Inquisition targeted Islamic and Jewish converts.
  4. Conquest and conversion: medieval Spain, the Ottoman Empire, the Spanish Conquistadors are examples.
  5. To instal or remove a government that is of the correct faith: many wars in the middle ages were fought over royal succession and who had the divine right to rule. The reformation sparked a series of wars between Protestant and Catholic.
  6. Kashmir, Palestine, N. Ireland, African Genocide, and many other modern conflicts have religious undertones.
  7. Scapegoating: Communist persecution and the Holocaust are modern examples of secular movements using beliefs to persecute certain groups or enemies.

Most religious wars are really fought over secular issues. Wikipedia lists land acquisition, control of trade routes, and dynasty changes. Any or all of these issues could be present in Amberia. Pretty much any conflict can be characterized as religiously motivated. Once we explain how the Anarian powers got to Amberia, a casus belli will be easy to invent.

We must first decide if players are allowed to develop other Anarian religions or if we are limited to developing branches of Orkanan. This will largely determine the character of holy war in Amberia.
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12-23-2011, 09:30 AM (This post was last modified: 12-23-2011 09:35 AM by Tommy.)
Post: #7
RE: Proposed Structure and Historical Foundation
Amberia is an island right? We can use the Holy Island concept apparent in West European mythology. What you want is a scriptural reference to that island being holy and a myth to support it. Think the Ark on Mt. Ararat, Apollo at Delphi, Aphrodite in Cynthus, Zeus in Cyprus, Bastet in Bubastis, Siddartha in Lumbini, Kuanyin in Putuo Island and King Arthur in Avalon. Religious wars are fought on secular grounds, but their defining characteristic is a cultural and moral one.

Orkanan religions (note plural) are each allowed to be known by other names. Just note the origins in anthropological terms, and describe how the adherents really hate to be categorized as Orkanan by anthropologists. Goodness, if they are monotheistic religions in the same region, they are very likely to share the same roots and some traditions, as a matter of course.

Tommy » Kuala Lumpur
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12-23-2011, 03:59 PM (This post was last modified: 12-23-2011 04:05 PM by Imperium.)
Post: #8
RE: Proposed Structure and Historical Foundation
Tommy Wrote:Religious wars are fought on secular grounds, but their defining characteristic is a cultural and moral one.

I can think of very few wars where morality and culture was anything more than superficial. Perhaps the common man has gone to war to fight for a moral or cultural reason. Elites go to war to maintain or increase political power.

Tommy Wrote:We can use the Holy Island concept...

A war for control of a religious site would work for me. I think it would be best to have several layers of motivation beyond the religious interest.

The Aedelant/Antaran religion is transcendental. They do not have physical manifestations of their faith, like idols or holy objects. I think I recall that Orkanan has holy groves/forests. Perhaps Orkanan mythology speaks of a holy island. The First Stoldavic Empire decides Amberia is this holy island and invades. But the native Amberians were followers of the Aedeland/Antara faith. Aedeland and Antara declare a war to remove the Orkanist from Amberia and a Holy War begins.

As we move into contemporary times the conflict becomes less about religion and more about the rich resources in Amberia, though the subcontext of religious cleavages remain. The current power sharing compromise is fragile. An attempt by one of the powers to control the others triggered the Pan Anarian War.

Tommy Wrote:Orkanan religions (note plural) are each allowed to be known by other names. Just note the origins in anthropological terms, and describe how the adherents really hate to be categorized as Orkanan by anthropologists. Goodness, if they are monotheistic religions in the same region, they are very likely to share the same roots and some traditions, as a matter of course.

I do not care if Orkanan considered the Aedelant/Antaran Faith to be an extension of itself. The Aedelmen/Antarans reject this notion.

In the entry about monotheism wikipedia says "while they vehemently profess the concept of a strict and pure monotheism, "Islam and Judaism adamantly reject the various distinctions, particularly that the God of Israel or Allah was identical with the Christian notion of a triune Godhead and the doctrine of Jesus as God incarnate."

I agree, the fact that they all worship a single omnipotent creator god is enough to lump them together academically. Just as the polytheistic or ancestor worship religions would be lumped together.

The actual history- who came first, if and when they split- should be left unknown or the subject of conjecture. Did Judaism start with Adam, Abraham, Moses, or with Rabbinic Judaism? Did Christianity start with Adam, Jesus, Paul, or the Constantine? Depends on who you ask. A follower of those faiths may claim the religion has always existed but a scholar would say that the modern religion was a much more recent development.
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12-23-2011, 11:43 PM
Post: #9
RE: Proposed Structure and Historical Foundation
so with all of this divisiveness what makes this island so developed? is it just super competitive and a place where great minds are wooed to help factions get the upper hand?.. perhaps its location makes it our market center?
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12-24-2011, 06:43 AM
Post: #10
RE: Proposed Structure and Historical Foundation
I'll start with my proposal:

Amberian Development, Demographics, Structure, and Political Stability

Cooperatively Playing Amberia:
  1. Territories 1091, 1092, and 1093 will be subdivided. One subdivision constitutes a petty realm and one petty realm goes to each participating player. Several undeveloped realms will be reserved for future players.
  2. Players are free to develop the history, culture, political and social structure of their realm as they wish within the limits of Amberia's context.
  3. Amberia is an elective monarchy. The monarch serves until he is replaced.
  4. The rulers of the several petty realms founded during the Greater Stoldavic Empire constitute the royal council. The council elects the monarch from among themselves. Each petty realm (and player) has one vote in the election of the monarch regardless of territorial size or population.
  5. The player whose ruler is elected Monarch will appoint Amberia's government officials. This allows for patronage. A player whose character is appointed to a official position has control over the actions of that character in that position.
  6. Major decisions remain subject to approval of the royal council by player vote.


Religious Composition: Amberia's religious composition is determined by the demographics of the several petty realms. If four of six players determine their realms are Orkanan, then Amberia is approximately 66% Orkanan. If another player joins and determines his realm is not Orkanan, Amberia becomes 57% Orkanan.

Historical Background: Amberia was once part of a larger region of the Aedelant/Antaran Faith that stretched from Amberia to western Stoldavia. The western expansion of Orkanan into west Stoldavia and southern Jorveh displaced many proto-Aedelmen to Amberia. At the conclusion of Orkanan's expansion across Stoldovia and near the peak of the Greater Stoldavic Empire, Orkanan was introduced to Amberia by conquest. All of this expansion was justified by the Orkanist leaders of the Stoldavic Empire as being Vind's plan.

Antara felt threatened by the Orkanan Realm's expansionist behavior. They allied themselves with the indigenous Amberians and the western Stoldavic tribes (proto-Aedelmen) against the Stoldavic Empire and agreed to send military support to liberate Amberia. Although originally a secular conflict, the war took on a religious context when Antara's emperor converted to the Aedelant/Antaran Faith.

Due to the logistics of two foreign powers fighting a major war on a distant island, the war was a series of conflicts fought over generations as supplies and reinforcements allowed.

When the Orkanan Empire conquered territory in Amberia it installed a Furst. This mirrored the many petty kingdoms and states of the their Empire in Stoldavia. Because Antara entered the conflict under the pretense of protecting or liberating the indigenous Amberians and the displaced proto-Aedelmen, the Emperor was unable to claim the territory for Antara. Instead, he installed ostentatiously independent rulers over the liberated territories.

These Orkanan Fursts and petty rulers of the Aedelant/Antaran Faith became well established over the course of the generational conflict. By the time the Second Orkanan Empire fell into civil war itself, the wars had grown fewer and far between.

Fearing that the civil war in Stoldavia would provide an opportunity for the forces of the Aedelant/Antaran rulers to conquer the entire island, the Orkanan Fursts sued for peace. However, domestic troubles in Antara (perhaps a dynastic crisis or war fought somewhere else) left the Aedelant/Antaran rulers equally uncertain of their strength.

Around 7100-7200, a peace agreement was reached founding the Amberian elective monarchy. A period of stability lasted until a power grab attempt led to the Pan Anarian War. This power grab can be scripted later as part of the Pan Anarian War development. A peace agreement ending the PAW reset the pre-war borders.

Political Stability: Amberia is no more divisive than any other state where competing interests are represented in government. Amberia was politically unstable during the conquest period before unification. Following the peace agreement, Amberia would have had several centuries of stability to develop. This would put it at no more of a developmental disadvantage than any other nation that participated in the Pan Anarian War.

Stabilizing Factors:
  1. The elective monarchy is effectively a parliamentary system with the elective monarch functioning as a prime minister. Regime change occurs peacefully through political means. Why risk war and instability, when you can simply vote the ruling monarch out of office?
  2. The elective monarch is empowered to act on behalf of all Amberia. This allows Amberia to function as a fully independent and capable power. Under the leadership of the monarch it can forge alliances, found colonies, declare war, and exert influence.
  3. The balance of power in Amberia is critical to Anarian peace and security. Amberian rulers recognize a failure to rule themselves may result in foreign rule.
  4. Peaceful regime change in Amberia has several hundred years of successful precedent. On the other hand, the memory of the Pan Anarian War is a strong deterrent to any would-be illegitimate ruler.


Cohesive Factors:
  1. Combined power and influence under the elective monarchy.
  2. Unity provides access to resources that would otherwise be unavailable.
  3. Unity under the elective monarchy has institutionalized regime change and disputes. Unity ended the constant warring between the realms.
  4. Amberian rulers and their nobles have held lands in Amberia for hundreds of years. Despite ethnic and religious differences, there is a common sense of Amberian identity.
  5. Amberians recognize that divided they are more susceptible to foreign influence.
  6. Peaceful regime change in Amberia has several hundred years of successful precedent. Conversely, the Pan Anarian War is a single negative precedent showing the consequences of disunity. The memory of the War is a strong deterrent to any would-be seperatist.


Conclusion: Amberia can be as cooperative or divisive as we as players decide to make it. Regime change can happen as often or as infrequently as we like. If a player is an active and productive "ruler" their reign may be quite long. However, if alliances easily change or a player is largely an absent ruler, a reign may be very short.

A few things to consider when voting for a monarch:
  1. A realm that is subservient to its original homeland, may find few friends among the other realms when it is time to elect the monarch. Who would vote for a ruler whose player intends to force Amberia to act as another nation's puppet?
  2. On the other hand, a realm that puts Amberia first may be viewed as best fit to rule. What's good for the goose is good for the gander, right?
  3. Players can campaign for votes with patronage. This could be critical to gaining election. A player may be willing to vote for another player if given a promise that his character would serve in a high post, such as foreign secretary.
  4. When developing a ruler it would be helpful to describe his or her political position and things they wish to accomplish with Amberia. This gives people an idea of what you are looking to do with Amberia as ruler.
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