Gotha date; RH

 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
[Colony Proposal] Zitgau
03-20-2018, 08:20 PM
Post: #1
[Colony Proposal] Zitgau
Zitgau
[Image: rlglkx.jpg]
(Zitgau is circled; the existing Anisoran colony of the Andrea Islands in the west)

Territory: 8001
Location: Janbian Peninsula, Western Davai, bordering the Zhando Sea
Name: Zitgau (Zigang 紫港 (a feeble attempt at Mandarin - I fully expect this to be wrong!), spelled Zitgao in Anisoran). In the local language (a variant of Mandarin) it means Purple Harbour - the name coming to describe the whole peninsula from the main port.
Capital: Zitgau (Zigang)
Languages: Native Mandarin family tree language (open to James' input here), perhaps called Janbian or Janese; Anisoran the language of commerce and government.
Religion: A mixture of the native Shuocian religion, Kamuran Celestialism and imported Anisoran Peratolian Orkanan.
Government: A crown colony under the administration of a governor.
Population: 441,203

As we all know, the Shangti, and in particular Western Davai, is heating up - both in terms of general activity as well as the history of the region. James and I thought it would be a nice addition to the region if Anisora had a small trading post in the region to create further opportunities for interaction. Thus I propose the Anisoran colony of Zitgau.

The timeline for Anarian intervention in the Shangti is sketchy at the moment, but I think it would be appropriate for Anisora to have acquired the colony in the 75th century - probably early to mid century. It is difficult to say how Anisora acquired it, exactly, as the huge landmass to the east of the tiny peninsula doesn't have any established history. However, I would be happy to develop a narrative of a trade conflict that developed between Anisora and a local potentate in the early 7400s.

Alternatively, the area could have been taken over by Anisora from the ailing Kamura. I'm not sure if the early 7400s works with the timeline of Kamura - you will have to enlighten me, James. Otherwise we can go with an independent kingdom/polity, or a kingdom under the suzerainty of Kamura having ceded the land to Anisora. It could have been acquired either in one go, i.e. the whole Zitgau peninsula, or first the city was acquired as a trading station and then the rest of the territory was acquired after a war/diplomatic incident. I think I prefer the latter - it reflects the narrative of increasing influence in the region during this period.

Zitgau will be Anisora's gateway into Davai - an extremely important trading station for Anisora, providing access to lucrative markets. I think this could create some interesting game for us in the region - with Kamura seeking to reassert herself, Zitgau, being one of a number (I'd imagine) of similar Anarian territories in the region, would create some interesting diplomatic/economic/military possibilities for interaction.

Quote
03-20-2018, 09:10 PM
Post: #2
RE: [Colony Proposal] Zitgau
Great Stuff!

Quote:Territory: 8001
Location: Janbian Peninsula, Western Davai, bordering the Zhando Sea
Name: Zitgau (Zigang 紫港 (a feeble attempt at Mandarin - I fully expect this to be wrong!), spelled Zitgao in Anisoran). In the local language (a variant of Mandarin) it means Purple Harbour - the name coming to describe the whole peninsula from the main port.
Capital: Zitgau (Zigang)
Languages: Native Mandarin family tree language (open to James' input here), perhaps called Janbian or Janese; Anisoran the language of commerce and government.
Religion: A mixture of the native Shuocian religion, Kamuran Celestialism and imported Anisoran Peratolian Orkanan.
Government: A crown colony under the administration of a governor.
Population: 441,203

Based on where it is, Zitgau is located in a transition zone between the Xiangren cultural sphere to the north and the Nanfan region which is culturally Siamese. Due to it's position outside the Kamuran island arc it has open access to the sea and is in a highly strategic location with possible access through the Janbian interior to Xian. As such it is of potential concern for Kamuran trade interests. Can't have insurrectionist tributaries getting uppity in Davai, never-mind Raia!

I hope you don't mind me recommending Cantonese as the local language. I assumed Mandarin was the language of the Yan Basin which is some distance away. The Xiangren are supposed to be south Chinese from what I understand so a Canton equivalent would be more appropriate here. Could call the local dialect Janbianese Smile

Glad you cited the Kamuran cultural influences, I'd expect the Kamuran Language and Religion to be prominent across the region.

Quote:The timeline for Anarian intervention in the Shangti is sketchy at the moment, but I think it would be appropriate for Anisora to have acquired the colony in the 75th century - probably early to mid century. It is difficult to say how Anisora acquired it, exactly, as the huge landmass to the east of the tiny peninsula doesn't have any established history. However, I would be happy to develop a narrative of a trade conflict that developed between Anisora and a local potentate in the early 7400s.

I'm still of the mind that we should push Auresian and Anisoran acquisition in the region forward a few decades. We could compromise with the mid 7400's perhaps. I think the main incentive for a local potentate to align with Anisora would be in the aftermath of a rebellion in the region against Kamuran hegemony as an aftereffect of the Auresian War. The Empire of Xian might also support an outside power on the Janbian Peninsula provided you offer it maritime trade access uninhibited by Kamuran tolls.

Anisora and Kamura don't have to have engaged in a hot war to establish Zitgau, it could have been done by proxy as neither side would seek another war in Raia. In Kamura's case they had to recover from their defeat by Auresia and modernise their fleet while Anisora had a limited naval capability relatively to other powers and I imagine would be unwilling to let things get too messy. Anisora could have provided a rebellious prince with modern weapons like Auresia did but this time Kamura refrained from engaging the Anarians. You get Zitgau as a reward for your support.
Quote
03-21-2018, 09:31 AM
Post: #3
RE: [Colony Proposal] Zitgau
TeamBattleaxe Wrote:I hope you don't mind me recommending Cantonese as the local language. I assumed Mandarin was the language of the Yan Basin which is some distance away. The Xiangren are supposed to be south Chinese from what I understand so a Canton equivalent would be more appropriate here. Could call the local dialect Janbianese Smile

That's why I asked for your input! More than happy to change it to Cantonese. As I say, you know more about this region than I do. Not sure how the change in language will affect the name - I will have to do some research.

TeamBattleaxe Wrote:I think the main incentive for a local potentate to align with Anisora would be in the aftermath of a rebellion in the region against Kamuran hegemony as an aftereffect of the Auresian War. The Empire of Xian might also support an outside power on the Janbian Peninsula provided you offer it maritime trade access uninhibited by Kamuran tolls.

This could work nicely. If Anisora seeks to increase it's share of trade in the region, the classic imperialist strategy of playing one power off against the other will work nicely. If the Empire of Xian is the power in the mainland, Anisora will exploit Kamura's weakening hold over the region.

TeamBattleaxe Wrote:Anisora and Kamura don't have to have engaged in a hot war to establish Zitgau, it could have been done by proxy as neither side would seek another war in Raia. In Kamura's case they had to recover from their defeat by Auresia and modernise their fleet while Anisora had a limited naval capability relatively to other powers and I imagine would be unwilling to let things get too messy. Anisora could have provided a rebellious prince with modern weapons like Auresia did but this time Kamura refrained from engaging the Anarians. You get Zitgau as a reward for your support.

The mid-7400s marks the high water mark of Anisoran power. Her navy would have been considerably more powerful then than it is now. Having said that, and depending on when exactly this proxy war fell, I agree that Anisora wouldn't want a full on war with Kamura if she could avoid it. At this stage she just wants to rock the boat and see what she can get away with after the Auresian War.

I like the idea of Anisora providing support to a usurper of the throne. Weapons and economic support would then translate into the concession at Zitgau and favourable trading rights in the interior of the kingdom in question.

Quote
03-21-2018, 06:51 PM (This post was last modified: 03-21-2018 06:56 PM by TeamBattleaxe.)
Post: #4
RE: [Colony Proposal] Zitgau
Considering that Cantonese is the language of Hong Kong I think it is a perfect fit for the region. You should have some useful resources on the internet for translations considering the high level of interaction with English speakers through the British.

Quote:If the Empire of Xian is the power in the mainland, Anisora will exploit Kamura's weakening hold over the region.


I conceived Xian as being a hermit kingdom for much of itself history, isolated from its neighbours by jungles, mountains and the Kamuran monopoly that limited outside trade access. Kamura wielded heavy influence on it's foreign interactions as a result. Recently Xian has been chaffing under this arrangement and has been galvanised by successful backlashes against Kamura in Raia.

Xian has repeatedly attempted to take control of the Janbian Peninsula and acquire direct access to the Zhando Sea thus bypassing Kamuran tolls. These campaigns have met with mixed success since Kamura still occupies territory on the Peninsula and the Zhando Coast remains de-facto independent due to the difficulties of travelling across the rugged terrain between Xian and the Coast and consolidating control.

Anisora could tip the balance in favour of Xian and it's local allies however with imports of technology and the establishment of new trade routes via rail and airship routes. You could fund a railway project connecting Zitgau to Xian and in the meantime rely on airships to get goods in. Kamura would want to undermine these efforts clandestinely by employing saboteurs and possibly aerial privateers i.e. sky pirates! Bring on the Steampunk I say.

I wouldn't want to usurp too much creative licence from a future player of Xian but do think outlining a geopolitical scenario in the area is necessary. Based on OOG geopolitics you could expect a nation in Xian position to act like this.

EDIT: I will make a proposal for a Xian flavour nation soon. It will be of a modest size and won't be fleshed out internally too much, like I said it would be a hermit kingdom. It would have pre-defined foreign policy aims and would provide something for us to interact with until we can get a new player to adopt it as their own Smile
Quote
03-21-2018, 10:09 PM (This post was last modified: 03-21-2018 10:33 PM by August Dux.)
Post: #5
RE: [Colony Proposal] Zitgau
TeamBattleaxe Wrote:Considering that Cantonese is the language of Hong Kong I think it is a perfect fit for the region. You should have some useful resources on the internet for translations considering the high level of interaction with English speakers through the British.

You say that, but I seemed to have had a lot more trouble trying to work out Cantonese than Mandarin! Nevertheless, I think I have a new name in Janubianese:

Zihohau (紫河口; transliterated into Pastanan as Jí hòh háu) meaning Mouth of the Purple River. I still think it will be fine for the colony to be called Zitgao by Anisorans and other Anarians. Transliterations can be easily confused when you're trying to reconcile Italian and Cantonese! It might just be a quirk of the initial attempts at transliteration.

TeamBattleaxe Wrote:Anisora could tip the balance in favour of Xian and it's local allies however with imports of technology and the establishment of new trade routes via rail and airship routes. You could fund a railway project connecting Zitgau to Xian and in the meantime rely on airships to get goods in. Kamura would want to undermine these efforts clandestinely by employing saboteurs and possibly aerial privateers i.e. sky pirates! Bring on the Steampunk I say.

I like the sound of this! Sky piracy would be very cool - although not quite as hardcore as most steampunk settings. Although it would be expensive, there would naturally be huge gains for establishing a railway from Xian to Zitgau. Funnelling trade through Anisoran hands, for one. General sabotage will create lots of opportunities for fun roleplay and tension-creation in the region!

When would this sabotage have begun? At what stage would Kamura feel confident enough to blatantly condone (or actively support) piracy and sabotage against Anisora? Perhaps after Kamura wins her great victory against another Anarian power in 7571?

A potential scenario might involve the Anisoran oil giant SMP (the Moreva Petroleum Corporation). I'm not sure how large Xian would be, but there are substantial oil deposits in 7146 and 7176. Those deposits could prove a huge incentive for the Anisorans to establish a rail network to the coast and develop the area with the aim of exploiting the natural resources in the region. If Anisora helped Xian out, either by providing advanced weapons/technology/diplomatic support, perhaps she acquired exclusive rights to exploit any oil found in the Empire in exchange for a certain percentage of the profits etc. Standard imperialist set up.

That whole project would be huge - the establishment of a large rail network, building the infrastructure to support oil extraction operations, potentially refining (although this would more likely be done in Anisora), transportation facilities at Zitgau and another port closer to the oil deposits, probably located on the Jianzhu Coast. All that would prove to be a substantial source of interest for the Kamurans - and provide them with ample opportunities for sabotage etc.

TeamBattleaxe Wrote:I wouldn't want to usurp too much creative licence from a future player of Xian but do think outlining a geopolitical scenario in the area is necessary. [...]

EDIT: I will make a proposal for a Xian flavour nation soon.

I think a shell nation in this region is a good idea - it being such an important region, and it will certainly define foreign policy in the region to a large extent. Looking forward to seeing the proposal.

Quote
03-21-2018, 11:45 PM
Post: #6
RE: [Colony Proposal] Zitgau
Quote:Zihohau (紫河口; transliterated into Pastanan as Jí hòh háu) meaning Mouth of the Purple River. I still think it will be fine for the colony to be called Zitgao by Anisorans and other Anarians. Transliterations can be easily confused when you're trying to reconcile Italian and Cantonese! It might just be a quirk of the initial attempts at transliteration.

I personally would like a combination of the two since Zitgau rolls of the tongue but Zihohau is more accurate. How about Zihogau? Seems easier to say but is more like Cantonese.

Quote:I like the sound of this! Sky piracy would be very cool - although not quite as hardcore as most steampunk settings. Although it would be expensive, there would naturally be huge gains for establishing a railway from Xian to Zitgau. Funnelling trade through Anisoran hands, for one. General sabotage will create lots of opportunities for fun roleplay and tension-creation in the region!

Airships would be the main way of getting goods in and out of Xian at the present due to the long-term nature of the railway project. I'd be interested to know what your thoughts are on how space piracy should be applied in Gotha? We will need to develop various technologies to make airship on airship battle viable including boarding of airborne vessels.

I'm imagining now two airships, one an Anisoran courier vessel and the other a Kamuran backed corsair, engaging each other over the jungles of Xian with the pirates intent on boarding the Anisoran vessel.

Quote:When would this sabotage have begun?

When the Anisorans laid down the first sleeper plans would be drawn up to disrupt construction through jeopardising the supply of industrial materials from outside (Zihogau(?) would have limited industrial capacity of it's own). This could be done through piracy by air and sea as well as stealth raids by mercs and operatives in the jungle. Kamura would likely employ the Ninjakan to ferment unrest in the region by triggering local wars and rebellions and assassinating problem individuals.

It's possible that Anisora would attempt to encourage Xian to commence industrialising. Though this isn't wholly seen as a bad thing by Kamura, they'd obviously prefer Xian modernised to their benefit and try to sabotage efforts by Xian to start producing materials for the railway. An attempt at a diplomatic approach would be made here by the Kamurans, with investors trying to woo the Xianic Emperor at the expense of Anarian competition. If that fails, Kamura might consider backing a pretender and try to topple the Emperor, Pinochet style.

Quote: I'm not sure how large Xian would be, but there are substantial oil deposits in 7146 and 7176.

Xian won't spread that far since that is strategic Yan territory. Expect Xian to conform to geography for the most part and mostly occupy the enclosed river basin to the north of the Janbian Peninsula. There isn't any oil in Xian but there is Coal and Gold! Rubber will be a major cash crop in the Basin which you might want to acquire.
Quote
03-22-2018, 11:45 AM
Post: #7
RE: [Colony Proposal] Zitgau
TeamBattleaxe Wrote:I personally would like a combination of the two since Zitgau rolls of the tongue but Zihohau is more accurate. How about Zihogau? Seems easier to say but is more like Cantonese.

The Janubianese name will be Zihohau (紫河口) - considering naming conventions of cities like Hong Kong and Macau and their interaction with European languages, I think it is fine to leave the name as Zitgau. The native inhabitants will call it its proper name, Zihohau.

TeamBattleaxe Wrote:I'd be interested to know what your thoughts are on how space piracy should be applied in Gotha? We will need to develop various technologies to make airship on airship battle viable including boarding of airborne vessels.

This is a pretty huge question - one which the whole community would need to be involved in. There has been very little development, as far as I understand, on how airships actually work in Gotha. There was talk a while back about how they actually managed to fly, but not about the practicalities of how they were militarised.

Setting up airship battles and boarding actions above the jungles of western Davai would be very cool though! I am very much looking forward to setting this storyline up - and I would love to work with you on some roleplay posts to really flesh the story out. Having said that, I think the intricacies of airships need to be discussed elsewhere.

TeamBattleaxe Wrote:Expect Xian to conform to geography for the most part and mostly occupy the enclosed river basin to the north of the Janbian Peninsula. There isn't any oil in Xian but there is Coal and Gold! Rubber will be a major cash crop in the Basin which you might want to acquire.

Fair enough, but just remember that there aren't any nations there yet. No shell nations have been approved yet, so we should be careful here. Having said that, it does make sense for those regions to belong to Yan rather than the smaller Xian.

I do, however, really like the idea of the SMP beginning to exploit oil in that region. It would make the project a large industrial effort, and provide some really cool potential for roleplay and storylines.

I therefore have been thinking that perhaps Anisora's trading post should be on the Yan coast - to make that possibility more realistic. Perhaps Anisora also acquired a Tsingtao-esque concession on the Jianzhu Coast. A much much smaller territory than Zitgau - only a port, essentially. This would then provide Anisora a means of getting materials in and out of Yan, and provide a terminus for the railway project.

The concession would be the first stop on a multi-stage network that goes all the way back to Anisora. If Zitgau is retained, ships and airships would ferry supplies to and from the Jianzhu concession and Zitgau, which in turn ships to and from the Andrea Islands in the central Shangti, which then in turn ships to Aspasia (Rhadrian Island in the south-western Shangti), which then sails on up to Anaria and reaches Anisoran ports. That network would be the lifeblood of the Anisoran Empire - and would create a really interesting strategic addition to not only Anisora's position on the world stage, but also provide rival powers like Kamura ample opportunities to try and undermine it.

Plus, if SMP does secure exclusive rights to prospect and extract oil, the financial situation would be a lot more realistic - the Anisoran state combining with SMP to finance this huge project. This would be the largest and most ambitious project embarked upon by the Anisorans since the Pan-Anarian War.

Quote
03-22-2018, 05:57 PM
Post: #8
RE: [Colony Proposal] Zitgau
Did someone say airship-to-airship battle? You got my attention!

I think we should foregt naval battles as a point of reference here. Airships are no cargo carriers or troop movers. I know Auresia emplys vessels that can carry 150, haven't compared that with the capacity of RW rigids, but it comes nowhere near trhe 1000-1500 soul dreadnoughts of the era. So airships play a different role, strategic operations, scanning, scouting, covert operations...

Then to matters of practicality, boarding a gondola that is hanging underneath an enormous cigar would be quite an achievement. If I would carry out a raid on an airship, I would lower some people by ropes, carrying long swords and have them cutting through the air compartments. Although a fragmentation bomb would have the same effect... Rope teams could be used as a threat, blackmailing the captain to surrender the vessel. Then I still have no idea how the new management would board their new property mid-air.

If an airship also would have sails (like the Vittmarker NTR-AB and NTR-CD) then there might be a different point of access. It still would be quite an achievement if a couple of daredevils entering by sails would be able to take over control. Gunfights on board would be big fun as well if we're using hydrogen.

Next strategy, shoot some grapples with chains into the gondola, preferably from underneath. No idea if you could board a vessel then, but it seems awfully messy. But then again, this is sky piracy.

Skydivers in a suit resembling that of a flying fox? Just trying to land on top of a blimp... I'll be waiting for the movie, must be better than the book...

VITTMARK:"This mess is a place." --- FISKS:"Fisk you!"
Quote
03-22-2018, 06:34 PM
Post: #9
RE: [Colony Proposal] Zitgau
It'll be a little bit different for Yan which is even more isolated from international trade without Kamuran co-operation. It's simply about geopolitics in that instance and if any outsider was going to tap into Yan it would be one of three ways:

1) Through the 'Silk Route' overland across Central Davai which some Russian or Turkic analogue would seek to do.

2) Via the Northern Passage where ships would dock in Ameratsu ports north of Yan, with infrastructure couriering goods south.

3) Via the Yannic coast which is accessible only through Kamuran straits at the present time and thus shipping would likely require tolls or licenses to pass through unhindered.

If Anisoran companies did set up in Yan they would be conceding some of their profits to Kamura or maybe a share of the oil they produce. Whether you would get exclusive access to Yan's oil reserves would be up to Yan but Kamura would be likely permit or encourage multiple foreign oil companies to pass through her straits to ensure one magnate does not get too powerful in West Davai. It would be an all or nothing policy for Kamura with little favouritism.

I had originally thought that Anisora would set up an outpost within the straits and the ascendant Kamura would be applying pressure on it and other Anarian powers to start paying tolls and purchasing licences for access. You can still go along with Zitgau if you want to, though its main purpose would be accessing Xianic markets. I doubt a railway would connect Yan and Xian together primarily because they won't trust each other!

Quote:Did someone say airship-to-airship battle? You got my attention!

Hey Pep! Considering that we have RW risk-takers that have to do all kinds of dangerous stuff on a routine basis just to make a living, I think we could just about stretch to this.

Is Vittmark not already using airships for cargo transport? You've got those air corridors over The Bind. Also though ships trump airships in terms of capacity, airships can access hard to reach places easier and in the case discussed here airships could well be a viable option.

Another point to consider is the conditions on Gotha itself that are somewhat different to earth considering Gotha is a little larger and therefore has slightly denser gravity and possibly a heavier atmosphere. This could mean that airships are more practical as modes of transport on Gotha.

We can certainly be imaginative with the ways in which we could adopt air combat in this setting. This should be discussed on a thread of it's own Smile
Quote
03-22-2018, 07:31 PM
Post: #10
RE: [Colony Proposal] Zitgau
TeamBattleaxe Wrote:It'll be a little bit different for Yan which is even more isolated from international trade without Kamuran co-operation.

Very true - Kamura's geopolitical position would give her a say in how trade is conducted with Yan - particularly in recent years. All the more interesting for us! But even with Kamura pressuring Anarian companies/nations, I still think it would be hugely profitable to do business with Yan. Although I'm not sure I agree with you in that Anisora would have to concede some profits/oil to Kamura. Particularly if Kamura is actively encouraging Anarian competition in Yan. Facing a single Anarian power is different to threatening the trade of several.

If the geographical location of China was in a similar position in the RW, the European powers would have still traded with her. They would just have had to think creatively if the containing power became too restricting.

Anisora will be in a similar position. There would be legal arguments that Kamura cannot claim tolls through the Noki/Senoki strait (although I'm sure that won't stop her!). Straits are quickly becoming the single most important issue on the whole of Gotha - and here I was thinking the Straits Cartel was an Anarian problem!

If Kamura does push for an imposition of tariffs (perhaps even inspired by the implentation of the Treaty of Aerilar in Anaria) this could create an interesting dynamic. This narrative could work well and coincide really nicely with already established timelines. Particularly with the Anisoran government (as of 7575) staunchly against such protectionist policies.

The Treaty of Aerilar could have inspired Kamura to implement a similar policy - although she would do it unilaterally, and so the diplomatic and economic fallout would potentially be very different to the cartel in Anaria. In fact, if this was the case, her delicate trade arrangements in the region would provide another important reason to explain Anisora's reticence to join the Cartel (and decision to pull out in 7579).

TeamBattleaxe Wrote:I doubt a railway would connect Yan and Xian together primarily because they won't trust each other!

I probably agree. That's why airships will play an important role in the region - even if they don't carry cargo (although I'm not against them carrying modest cargo to be honest).

Quote


Forum Jump:


User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)